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FamiTracker
Or so i've noticed. The lowest note you can put into famitracker seems to be A0, which makes sense. However, 'A0' is not a uniform pitch, depending on what chip, and channel you're using.
The triangle channel seems to produce notes one octave beneath the pulse channel, which along with it's smooth timbre makes it suitable for bass parts oftentimes. or, really, because it offers deeper pitches than the pulse1 and pulse2 channels.
I find triangle to be rather obnoxious to work with, especially when combined with dpcm samples (as it and noise seem to get much quieter, and i have to rebalance all my pulse entries from the A range to between 2 and 8, really limiting things).
If you checked out any of the songs I posted for Null Divide's soundtrack, you'd see my way around this was to use FDS to replicate pulse waves. FDS produces the same octave notes as triangle, and lets me control the volume to boot (though it's much louder than pulse by default).
This is a round about way of saying it, but i needed to preface the topic first. Basically
What do you guys do for getting those deep pulse notes? Why does FDS do it, but not 2a03? and for good measure, why are FDS and Triangle an octave below the pulse channels?
I guess my answer for this is basically the same as the one I gave [url=http://famitracker.com/forum/posts.php?id=5009]this guy: "that's just the way it is". More specifically, that's how the 2A03 was designed.
Pitches on the 2A03 are calculated using an 11-bit register (0x000 to 0x7FF, with 0x7FF being the lowest pitch, which is A-0). The triangle also uses an 11-bit register, but its period is twice longer than the pulse channels', which means the sound it outputs is exactly one octave below the pulses for the same pitch register value (e.g. 0x0D5 sounds like the centre C on a piano keyboard, whereas it will sound like the C above the centre C on the pulse channels).
Using the FDS to work around the 2A03's limitations may appear like a viable solution to the layperson, but bear in mind composers in the mid-80's/early-90's did not have the option to do this. They had to make do with what they had, nothing more.
If you find the 2A03 to be so obnoxious to work with, I suggest using a DAW or sample-based tracker such as OpenMPT or MilkyTracker with chiptune-like samples instead.
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If you find the 2A03 to be so obnoxious to work with, I suggest using a DAW or sample-based tracker such as OpenMPT or MilkyTracker with chiptune-like samples instead.[/quote]
:\ I'm actually quite pleased with the functionality of this program. Nearly offended that you'd suggest I should just I just go compose in a different program simply because i was wondering what the community here did in place of lower pulse notes.
I appreciate your answer on the WHY of the matter, though. I wanted to know why the triangle channel was always an octave lower with the same input, and now I do. But based on your reply, it seems you'd prefer I simply not use FDS in order to achieve the desired sound? I'm not looking to push a given track onto a cart. Why not use the tools at hand?
(or, use the VRC6 expansion because those DO go an octave below)
A more technical reason for tri working that way is that it's just cycling between volumes 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B D E F, but then it has to cycle back down E D C B A 9...0. So it takes twice as long to complete one full oscillation during the given time dictated by whatever value your periods for registers $400A and $400B. That's also why there's no volume control because it's already playing at all volumes all the time.
[quote=insomniacovrlrd]:\ I'm actually quite pleased with the functionality of this program. Nearly offended that you'd suggest I should just I just go compose in a different program simply because i was wondering what the community here did in place of lower pulse notes.[/quote]
Sorry for jumping the gun here; we just tend to get a fair amount of people demanding for features to be added that are just way off of what the NES is capable of. No offence intended, but I guess I did go a little bit overboard.
That being said, I recommended against using the FDS because for one, it kinda goes against the spirit of the program. The main reason (or one of the main reasons) people use Famitracker over one of the solutions I mentioned earlier is to put themselves in the shoes of people who actually did make music for the NES... sort of. I guess the tools back then were a little bit more primitive (if not completely different) compared to the more modern Famitracker, but in the end, you get to write for the very same piece of hardware ([url=http://famitracker.com/forum/posts.php?id=3633]literally) that they did.
Ergo, using the FDS simply to get around the limits set by the 2A03 is not a good reason to be using the FDS, at least in my opinion. Compare this to actually making triangle wave samples for use with the DPCM channel, which is a perfectly acceptable way to achieve four polyphony channels on the 2A03 (although this still doesn't solve your volume problem). Basically, I guess what I mean to say is, expansion chips such as the FDS should be used solely when you want to [i]add[/i] to the 2A03, not when you want to cheat your way around its quirks.
Oh, and another reason not to use the FDS channel in lieu of pulses is that there is a noticeable amount of lowpass filtering applied to it. It's not emulated pre-0.4.2, but it's definitely present on the real hardware (tested by jsr and rainwarrior). That, and its output is considerably louder than the 2A03.
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RE: 2a03 has no low pulse notes?Posted: 2013-10-02 09:41
[quote=insomniacovrlrd]especially when combined with dpcm samples (as it and noise seem to get much quieter, and i have to rebalance all my pulse entries from the A range to between 2 and 8, really limiting things).[/quote]
Two solutions here.
First is to avoid using DPCM.
Second is that due to the fact that your DPCM samples are probably causing the low volume, you may need to edit them. If you're using a kick and snare sound, your dpcm use is going to be those sounds, and silence in between. The way dpcm works is that it changes a "counter" variable over time by +1 or -1 per each bit of the dpcm file. This makes up the waveform-- however this also changes the volume of triangle, noise, and dpcm. You can see what your sample looks like by clicking on the sample name after loading it and clicking "Edit." If your sample looks like it ends in the middle of the frame, then triangle volume will be about half as low as it can go. You generally want samples to end up as high as possible on that graph- so highlight part of the sample and click "Tilt," which should make it go higher. Do that enough and the triangle volume change will be almost unnoticeable.
Thank you, Xyz_39808 and jrlepage for the further explanation on why triangle is the way it is, and some insight into why using expansion chips to work around a quirk in the 2a03's functionality isn't good for the spirit of things. I'll definitely keep it in mind.
As for rushjet, this is quite informative. I'd opened up audacity to measure just how much dpcm had been adjusting the output of the triangle channel, and i found it, over the spectrum of the Zxx command would be a smooth slide from tri at 50% volume, to 100% of ..well. Whatever it maxed out as, compared to the original.
I didn't want to edit the samples, originally. I'd actually used the nsf importer to grab a track from Super C, since lately i'm working on composing some would be tracks that have that sort of feel. Whenever i use them however, there's a huge hit to the volume of noise and triangle.
I'll go into edit and see what i can do. Thanks for the information!
I like to use the pulse for bass sometimes. It's true it doesn't go very low, but it goes low enough to be usable.
1. Carefully choose your key to accomodate the bassline you want to write. i.e. if your bass needs to go down another whole tone, consider transposing the whole piece up a whole tone to make room for it.
2. Double the bass sound with the triangle. For example, you could add a short triangle blip to reinforce each bass note before returning the triangle to doing other things. With a little redundancy like this you may find it's less of a problem when the bassline needs to jump up an octave, because at least the triangle will still have the downward bassline motion you want.
If you look at my VRC6 demo tune, Creepy Crag, I did something like what rainwarrior described in frame 09 (except in reverse). Look at the Pulse 2 and Triangle channels there.
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Rainwarrior :
I've checked that out in the past. Actually, doubling up pulse with an identical triangle channel makes a pretty strong, interesting sound. It's an cool option, but in doing so you lose a voice, so to say.
And jrlepage, i'm no forum wizard, so i couldn't quickly find the piece you're talking about. I'd like to check it out. Where's it at?
In the Demo Tunes folder in C:\Program Files\Famitracker or wherever you saved the program.
Or if you didn't save the demos, for whatever reason, you'll find them bundled with the program in the [url=http://famitracker.com/downloads.php]Downloads section.
[quote=]It's an cool option, but in doing so you lose a voice, so to say.[/quote]
The thing I'm trying to show you proves to you that you in fact don't have to lose a voice. (:
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A short note that is not sustained leaves lots of space in a channel to do other things. If you're careful you can make a single channel seem like multiple "voices".
I guess I am accustomed to LSDJ's pulse's lowest note being an octave higher than Famitracker's, so being able to go to A0 in Famitracker is luxurious to me. :3 I have no complaints. Gave me a 50% pulse in the lowest octave and I am a happy pbasser.
Also, to OP I will say this: Use whatever tools available to get the sound that you want, be it FDS or Zxx commands on the DPCM channel to affect the triangle volume. I don't know why people are essentially saying "don't use what's available in Famitracker to get the sound that you want out of it" that doesn't make sense to me. Plus that leaves the 2A03 pulse channels available for... sound effects...?
Spirits are meant to be broken
Edit: But of course it is fun and good to try get around limitations without circumventing them completely. It's good to mix it up and try new things.
At the very least, remember to tilt your dpcm samples to zero so that the triangle and noise return to full volume when the sample stops playing. I've forgotten to do that too many times :\
[quote=SketchMan3]I guess I am accustomed to LSDJ's pulse's lowest note being an octave higher than Famitracker's[/quote]
Isn't C-0 the lowest note the Gameboy pulses can play?
[quote=SketchMan3]Also, to OP I will say this: Use whatever tools available to get the sound that you want, be it FDS or Zxx commands on the DPCM channel to affect the triangle volume. I don't know why people are essentially saying "don't use what's available in Famitracker to get the sound that you want out of it" that doesn't make sense to me.[/quote]
Using Zxx is fine, since that's part of what the 2A03 lets you do. I am also not saying one shouldn't use the FDS; I'm just saying that using it to work your way around what the 2A03 [i]doesn't[/i] let you do is akin to cheating, and goes against the very spirit of using Famitracker. You might as well be doing just what I suggested earlier, and using an entirely different program not bound to the limitations of the console you're writing music for.
[quote=SketchMan3]Plus that leaves the 2A03 pulse channels available for... sound effects...? [/quote]
Yeah, that's, uh... not how it works.
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I record (some) NSFs on hardware. Feel free to [url=http://www.famitracker.com/forum/posts.php?id=3633]request a hardware render.
oh! I've completely glossed over the demo tunes folder, somehow. I've only ever grabbed ftm's from people showing off work in the forum here, and on the famitracker wiki where there's an accurate covers' section.
I'm going to give all of these a look through, actually. And i see what you mean, doubling up on pulse 2 and triangle to give it a weighty feel, but only at the start of each note. Then the channel was free for other things until the next note.
Thanks guys~ That about covered everything i was wondering about.
