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FamiTracker > General > FamiTracker Talk > How many channles can FamiTracker have? Owner: XRayNV New post
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How many channles can FamiTracker have? Posted: 2010-04-05 01:55 Reply | Quote
XRayNV

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#5219
Can you guys plz tell me I am just wandering?

Posted: 2010-04-05 05:31 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#5220
In FamiTracker 0.3.0, you can have a minimum of 5 sound channels. This is the default, using no expansion chips. It gives you 2 square wave channels, 1 noise channel, 1 triangle wave channel & 1 audio sample channel.

With the MMC5 expansion chip, you get 2 extra channels; both of them produce pulsating square waves.

With the VRC6 expansion chip, you get 3 extra channels; 2 extra square wave channels & 1 sawtooth wave channel.

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Posted: 2010-04-05 07:45 Reply | Quote
modusponens

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#5221
In the version 0.3.5 beta, support for two additional expansion chips is added: the Nintendo FDS and the Konami VRC7.

With the FDS, you get one additional free-form wave channel, in which you can, to a somewhat limited extent, design the shape of the wave it produces.

With the VRC7, you get six additional channels, each of which may use one of fifteen pre-existing voice patches or one customizable patch.

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Posted: 2010-04-05 11:49 Reply | Quote
Dave
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#5225
simultaneous/multi-expansion support is not yet implemented either, but when it is you could potentially have 17 channels with the currently supported expansions, or 28 once N106 and SUNSOFT5 are supported as well. quite why you'd want that many is another matter however ;D

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Posted: 2010-04-05 16:15 Reply | Quote
XRayNV

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#5229
My friend just wanted to know and thank you.

Posted: 2010-04-05 22:08 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#5250
Multiple expansion chips are supported by the tracker internally, but it cannot yet export multi-chip songs to NSF so I've made it possible to enable only a single chip at the moment.

FDS is incompatible with most other chips, but I believe the rest can be enabled simultaneous so maximum number would be 27 when N106 and 5B is supported.

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Posted: 2010-04-06 11:04 Reply | Quote
Dave
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#5273
[quote=jsr]FDS is incompatible with most other chips[/quote]

huh, interesting, i didn't realise that. just looking through nsfs at the moment, i've found some that are FDS+VRC6, and a couple that are FDS+MMC5+N106. so those combinations must work at least. i haven't ever seen an nsf that uses all expansions however.

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Posted: 2010-04-07 00:33 Reply | Quote
retrotails

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#5285
[quote=Dave]
...and a couple that are FDS+MMC5+N106...[/quote]
Where did you find those???

Posted: 2010-04-07 01:58 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#5289
[quote=Dave][quote=jsr]FDS is incompatible with most other chips[/quote]

huh, interesting, i didn't realise that. just looking through nsfs at the moment, i've found some that are FDS+VRC6, and a couple that are FDS+MMC5+N106. so those combinations must work at least. i haven't ever seen an nsf that uses all expansions however.[/quote]

I haven't seen a single FDS game that uses expansion chips other than that found in the floppy drive.

Considering that FDS stands for Famicom Disk System (which carried no other expansion chips,) I highly doubt that they're compatible with FDS because these chips interact with each other (& the Famicom's motherboard) differently.

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Posted: 2010-04-07 03:15 Reply | Quote
ElHuesudoII

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#5295
[quote=Dave][quote=jsr]FDS is incompatible with most other chips[/quote]

huh, interesting, i didn't realise that. just looking through nsfs at the moment, i've found some that are FDS+VRC6, and a couple that are FDS+MMC5+N106. so those combinations must work at least. i haven't ever seen an nsf that uses all expansions however.[/quote]
You sure they're not NSFe?

Posted: 2010-04-07 11:44 Reply | Quote
Dave
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#5299
yep. positive.

and yeah they're not ripped from games of course, and obviously wouldn't work on actual hardware. they're famicompo entries from various years.

[url=http://www.shakal.net/lunar/temp/fds]http://www.shakal.net/lunar/temp/fds

Tsu Ryu's original entries in FCM I (FDS+VRC6)
KAY's Chrono Cross cover in FCM II (FDS+MMC5+N106)
bob's F-Zero GX title cover in FCM II (FDS+N106)
Xaimus "Dendrite" in FCM VI (FDS+MMC5+N106)

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Posted: 2010-04-07 12:29 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#5300
[quote=Dave]huh, interesting, i didn't realise that. just looking through nsfs at the moment, i've found some that are FDS+VRC6, and a couple that are FDS+MMC5+N106. so those combinations must work at least. i haven't ever seen an nsf that uses all expansions however.[/quote]

Yeah I know some NSFs use combinations like that anyway, but that's cheating. The reason is because FDS has RAM in the same area where other sound chips registers are located (VRC6, VRC7 & Sunsoft). Other chips are probably OK

I'm using a hack in my NSF player that simply disables RAM if it is playing a multi-chip NSF (and I guess other players also do something similar), but it is against the NSF specification. It doesn't broke anything however, since no real FDS game had multiple chips and I haven't seen a multichip NSF that uses the RAM anyway.

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Posted: 2010-04-08 01:31 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#5312
Like I said, the Famicom Disk System drive itself is what contained the sound chip, along with the RAM & the stepper motor (to control the floppy's read/write access).

The drive itself, as jsr said, uses the same memory registers for the RAM module that normal cartridges would use for other expansions. I highly doubt that other chips would be OK, though, because there may be some chips that use the same memory locations as the drive's stepper motor, I/O path or other components related to floppy disk data access.

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Posted: 2010-04-08 04:11 Reply | Quote
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#5327
11_yoshimune_soko_v01.nsf from famicompo mini vol 3 (cover) [uses VRC6 VRC7 MMC5 N106]

robokabuto_-_saga_frontier_2_missgestalt.nsf [uses VRC7 MMC5 N106]



Posted: 2010-04-08 04:36  (Last Edited: 2010-04-08 04:37) Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#5330
But when you try to run the NSFs under real hardware, it will glitch out, even though it should technically work on an emulator (since they don't fully emulate all the quirks of the system).

MML & its NSF assembling abilities aren't completely faithful to the actual specs of the Famicom as it really treats each individual channel as nothing more than individual sound paths. In reality, each sound path occupies a certain number of memory locations in the 6502/6510, as do the hand-shaking signals of each expansion chip.

This means the following in terms of hardware:

1. No two expansion chips may occupy the same hand-shaking or data registers without interfering with each other's audio information or hand-shaking signals.

2. The hand-shaking signals must interact with the CPU such that the console can properly calculate the full number of expansion chips (which is as limited as the ROM data's memory footprint).

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