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VRC7 modulator release Posted: 2015-03-10 03:56  (Last Edited: 2015-03-10 04:14) Reply | Quote
Shywolf



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#66757
When enabling the "Sustained" checkbox for the modulator on a VRC7 patch, I'm expecting to be able to change the note-cut fade out length of the modulator sine with the Release slider, like one can do with the carrier when its own "Sustained" checkbox is enabled.

However, [b]the modulator's release slider doesn't appear to do anything when modulator "Sustained" is on[/b], and so, there's no individual release fade of the modulator's sine on note-cut - it just fades together with the carrier.

Is this a hardware limitation of some kind?

[size=0]EDIT: clarifying wording

Posted: 2015-03-10 23:56 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#66789
I've checked the emulation code, and indeed it seems that only the carrier is being notified about key off events. The modulator is ignored.

I do not know if this is the correct behavior, I can't find anything about it in YM2413 documentation. I can check it with my Lagrange point cart later.

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Posted: 2015-03-11 00:52  (Last Edited: 2015-03-11 00:57) Reply | Quote
Shywolf



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#66790
Thanks, jsr. If it helps, attached is a test module. If the modulator is notified upon key-off on h/w, the sound should immediately change into a pure sine upon hitting the note cut.


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saw.ftm (1 Kb)
Posted: 2015-03-11 18:06 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#66813
I've checked it now and the emulated behavior seems to be correct, the modulator never enters the release phase.

It's unknown to me if this is general YM2413 behavior or if it's related to the VRC7 variant only. Perhaps there is someone around with more knowledge about this?

I can probably find a YM2413 and figure it out otherwise.

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Posted: 2015-03-11 20:33 Reply | Quote
Shywolf



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#66820
[quote=jsr]I've checked it now and the emulated behavior seems to be correct, the modulator never enters the release phase.[/quote]Interesting. What I would suggest is to have the modulator release slider be greyed-out when "Sustained" is enabled, which might lessen confusion.

[quote=jsr]It's unknown to me if this is general YM2413 behavior or if it's related to the VRC7 variant only. Perhaps there is someone around with more knowledge about this?

I can probably find a YM2413 and figure it out otherwise.[/quote]This would also be interesting to know.

Posted: 2015-03-12 22:39 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#66853
Yeah that's a good idea. I'll add a note to the help files as well.

I'll look for a YM2413 too, the TNS board has a slot for that chip so it would be easy to test.

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Posted: 2015-03-23 19:59 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#67268
I've tested an original YM2413 now and it seems to have the same behavior.

I still find it strange that this isn't mentioned anywhere.

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Posted: 2015-03-23 21:04  (Last Edited: 2015-03-23 21:04) Reply | Quote
Shywolf



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#67270
[quote=jsr]I've tested an original YM2413 now and it seems to have the same behavior.

I still find it strange that this isn't mentioned anywhere.[/quote]It feels like a h/w bug or quirk of some sort (as why would the modulator even have a "Sustained" enable function on YM2413/VRC7 if it can't take advantage of it?), so it's certainly odd that it isn't documented.

Anyway thanks for testing this, jsr.

Posted: 2015-03-23 23:54 Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#67284
Very curious!

The sustain bit does have an effect. The modulator's release is used if sustain is off. It's just that release has no effect if the modulator's sustain bit is on? Super-odd.

I'm amazed it isn't mentioned in the datasheets, or anywhere I can find!

Posted: 2015-03-24 04:02 Reply | Quote
Shywolf



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#67302
[quote=rainwarrior]It's just that release has no effect if the modulator's sustain bit is on? Super-odd.[/quote]That's it, yeah. I was looking to make more-interesting note-cut sounds in VRC7 patches, but apparently this isn't doable. : /

Posted: 2015-03-27 17:40 Reply | Quote
za909

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#67435
Is it possible to change the properties of the custom patch without having to retrigger the note?
Allowing that could help somewhat.

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Posted: 2015-03-27 18:14 Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#67439
I think laying down a 3FF will allow FT to play without cycling the keyon/keyoff bit.

But it is technically easier to do outside of FT.

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