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FamiTracker
I've been wanting to get real NES hardware for some time now. NES chiptunes are pretty much all I listen to these days (I mean I do listen to other things, but I always find myself going back to FamiTracker or VirtuaNSF listening to all kinds of NSFs), so I thought it would be interesting to finally get a real NES (I've never owned one), and perhaps order one of these nifty Power Paks while I'm at it.
However, I don't want to regret doing it later so I wanted advice from people who know more than I do about those things.
My main concerns regarding the Power Pak are:
-Is it a good piece of hardware to begin with? Have any people reported issues with it?
-Is the firmware still updated regularly with new features?
-Is the "resistor mod" (the mod where you solder a 47k resistor between two pins on the PCB to enable expansion audio) easy to perform, considering I don't own any soldering tools and know nothing about electronics?
-If the answer to the above is "no", where should I be looking for places that'll do it for me? What costs am I looking at?
-Is expansion playback accurate? Which expansions are missing? I'm fairly sure MMC5 audio isn't implemented (yet?), but what about other ones?
-Do multi-expansion NSFs work fine (provided they don't use MMC5 audio)?
-If I ever decide to get a Japanese Famicom and an adaptor to use the Power Pak on it (which apparently you can do), will MMC5 playback then become possible? I'm assuming probably not, but I figure it's worth asking anyway.
I should probably post this in the Nesdev forums, but there hasn't been any activity there for some time so I figured I'd try here first.
Thanks!
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RE: The Power Pak - Is It Worth It?Posted: 2012-01-20 14:49
[quote=jrlepage]-Is it a good piece of hardware to begin with? Have any people reported issues with it?[/quote]
I don't know about other peoples' experiences, but I've had no problems at all with mine (owned it for ~6 months so far).
[quote=jrlepage]-Is the firmware still updated regularly with new features?[/quote]
It hasn't been updated for awhile on the main site, though loopy posts new mappers and such in the nesdev forums occasionally- for instance, with his newer mappers, I can play Gimmick! with expansion sound.
[quote=jrlepage]-Is the "resistor mod" (the mod where you solder a 47k resistor between two pins on the PCB to enable expansion audio) easy to perform, considering I don't own any soldering tools and know nothing about electronics?[/quote]
Yeah, I bought a $2 soldering iron and had some solder from like 5 years ago, you just get the solder hot enough until it's liquid, put the wire on first pin, put solder on both of them, etc. The only real thing you have to watch out for is if you solder two pins together that are too close, but this wasn't much of an issue (and you can just reheat / move the solder if you screw up). I actually didn't put a 47k resistor in mine, but instead used a 100k potentiometer (basically a resister that's adjustable) so I could match the volume exactly. Potentiometers have 3 connectors on them- you just connect the outer two to one of the pins and you're good.
[quote=jrlepage]-If the answer to the above is "no", where should I be looking for places that'll do it for me? What costs am I looking at?[/quote]
If you feel particularly uncomfortable doing this, I have no idea
[quote=jrlepage]-Is expansion playback accurate? Which expansions are missing? I'm fairly sure MMC5 audio isn't implemented (yet?), but what about other ones?[/quote]
[url=http://4x86.com/labyrinth-of-skadi.mp3]Blitz Lunar - Labyrinth of Skadi here's a test one for you that I recorded awhile ago... it's FDS, I think it does a good job. FDS, VRC6, FME7 (in-game / ROM... i don't think the nsf player supports it) all sound good (no idea about the "full features" of FME7) and n106 works but it's very quiet. This is one reason it's nice to have a potentiometer- I can just turn up the volume.
[quote=jrlepage]-Do multi-expansion NSFs work fine (provided they don't use MMC5 audio)?[/quote]
Just tried "xpansions" from the previous famicompo and it does play, but I can't tell if it's using more than one expansion or just cutting it out. *update* here, [url=http://4x86.com/ishtar.mp3]you-serris. It definitely plays both n106 and vrc6. IIRC using FDS + other expansions glitches out or freezes though. Note how the n106 is quieter than the other channels though.
[quote=jrlepage]-If I ever decide to get a Japanese Famicom and an adaptor to use the Power Pak on it (which apparently you can do), will MMC5 playback then become possible? I'm assuming probably not, but I figure it's worth asking anyway.[/quote]
I don't think so, because it's the issue of the PowerPak itself not supporting MMC5. I feel like they should make the NSF player just remap the channels from MMC5 to VRC6... that'd be nice... or at least have JUST the MMC5 audio supported.. I dunno. Some MMC5 games actually do work with loopy's new mappers, but I don't know if their audio does.. it might just be a problem with the NSF player.
Is there any hope for MMC5 & VRC7 audio support anytime in the (possibly distant) future?
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I love mine. I believe MMC5 is going to be implemented in the future, since they state it does have the hardware to do it, just not the firmware (or something like that). Been using it with no problems for a year and a half now.
I just took the plunge myself, found an NES on eBay, and ordered a PowerPak the other day. (Currently waiting on production then the mail.)
Though, my motivation was to be able to program on it (and also to play Battletoads as the gods intended). Hardware recordings as an end in themselves don't really interest me, except maybe as a means to improve our emulation of them (which for 2A03 already seems to be amazingly good, and since the expansions are emulated anyway...).
I have some questions about the 47k resistor mod though.
1. Is there an official site or anything that properly documents this mod, why to do it, etc.?
2. Is the 47k resistor mod, the "official" audio expansion mod for PowerPak, with the intention that all emulated sound will (eventually) be output through this pin and volume balanced for that load?
The reason I ask is that people say a lot of different things (and suggest different mods sometimes) on forums and it's a little bit confusing. It seems like the 47k mod is actually inappropriate or inadequate for real carts with a converter (a lot of people are suggesting soldering a resistor into the converter itself?).
Anyhow, if the 47k mod is the "one true mod" for PowerPak expansion audio, like I hope it is, it would be nice to have it confirmed so that I can just do it and not worry about having to change it later. RetroZone doesn't have its own forum, and NESDev is a big confusing pile of random ideas.
I have some questions about the 47k resistor mod though.
1. Is there an official site or anything that properly documents this mod, why to do it, etc.?
2. Is the 47k resistor mod, the "official" audio expansion mod for PowerPak, with the intention that all emulated sound will (eventually) be output through this pin and volume balanced for that load?[/quote]
1. No there is no official site, but there is one picture (of a very bad soldering job)
2. I have done this mod, and no, the output is not balanced on some expansions, in my inexperienced opinion. (VRC6 sounds fine, FDS is at 75% volume, FME-7 is about the same, and Namco 163 [thanks jrlepage] is also quiet). I frequently find myself increasing the expansions' volumes in FTMs so they come out balanced.
But over all, It is indeed worth it. No SEVERE problems (no "problems" at all really). It also seems to work without pushing the cartridge tray down, as I mistakenly learned today.
EDIT: I forgot to give you the aforementioned picture... Sorry.
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Honestly, I was thinking of getting a PowerPak as well (since I already have an NES from 11 years ago, still in top shape). I'm more curious about its dynamic lock-out key mechanism, though (it uses a CIClone dynamic lock-out chip, if I recall correctly; I know you can buy one at RetroUSB for $4 US). It'd be interesting to get a PAL NES & see the differences between them as you play NSFs.
jrlepage: I found a video tutorial on the resistor mod:
Disabling the 10nes lock-out chip is laughably easy compared to the resistor mod, you just have to break a contact on the chip (not sure which one, I think the fourth one from the left on the lower row) and there are dozens of videos on how to do it. It took me 30 minutes.
[quote=Rushjet1][quote=jrlepage]-Is the "resistor mod" (the mod where you solder a 47k resistor between two pins on the PCB to enable expansion audio) easy to perform, considering I don't own any soldering tools and know nothing about electronics?[/quote]
[...] I actually didn't put a 47k resistor in mine, but instead used a 100k potentiometer (basically a resister that's adjustable) so I could match the volume exactly. Potentiometers have 3 connectors on them- you just connect the outer two to one of the pins and you're good.[/quote]
What happens to the 3rd connector, do you leave it hanging?
Also, does the potentiometer only affect expansion audio volume? If so I might wanna look into getting one of those instead, shouldn't I?
Thanks for the info everyone, I think I'll probably get an NES and order my PowerPak next week.
Another question: I've seen people talk of hardware recordings; how would I go about making one? I'm so clueless about these things.. x_x
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The potentiometer has 3 connectors, one is input, 2 are output. Of the two outputs one is like a half-power output, and one is full-power. Just leave the half power one hanging :P And yes, this does only affect the volume of the expansions.
Hardware recordings: I have it set up with a Y-cable going from the NES ([url=http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/quality,85/0a9f0bbd3a40bd3e5c6e00a8faf1d9a6-0e62f9b7b4eb9d5f4c81fe2513d532a0.jpg]split the mono into L/R mono RCA cables), then a [url=http://www.installer.com/photosx/ipod-rca.jpg]converter from RCA to 1/8" cable to my PC's input. Then I just fire up goldwave and record the line in audio.
I am so torn about getting one of these. On one hand, it does alot of cool stuff and I will be "the guy with the Powerpak" to my friends. But on the other hand, most of that stuff can be achieved pretty solidly with emulation, and $135 is literally right above the price I'd wanna pay.
Has anyone encountered any minor graphic glitches that supposedly occur with certain games?
Just to explain potentiometers... they are very simply a resistor that you can vary with a knob. The three contacts on a pot are basically (A) the left end of the resistor, (B) a point in the middle that varies with the knob, and (C) the right end.
If your pot is 100 ohm:
- The resistance between A and B goes from 0 to 100 ohms.
- The resistance between B and C goes from 100 to 0 ohms.
- The resistance between A and C is always 100 ohms.
- If A to B is currently 30 ohms, B to C is 70 ohms.
Probably you want to use B and C for this kind of application so the resistance starts high (low volume output) and goes down as you turn the knob up (high volume output).
Also, a multimeter is the most important tool there is for working with electronics components. If you don't have one, I strongly recommend getting one. (Even if you don't do electronics stuff much, at the very least you can test batteries with it.)
[quote=za909]Disabling the 10nes lock-out chip is laughably easy compared to the resistor mod, you just have to break a contact on the chip (not sure which one, I think the fourth one from the left on the lower row) and there are dozens of videos on how to do it. It took me 30 minutes.[/quote]
[url=http://stlflops.com/techemporium/lockout/nlockout.txt]Yes; I know it's a joke. So is this resistor mod; you're just connecting a resistor to two pins on the console's motherboard.
As for potentiometers, Rushjet1 is nowhere near correct, as there's no half-power & full-power anything on one. rainwarrior's explanation is 100% correct.
I'd simplify it this way; the two end pins of a potentiometer are like the frames of a car's windshield, while the middle pin is like a windshield wiper blade. Let's say the window measures 100 cm. Move the wiper 20% towards the left from mid-point; this means the distance between the left frame & the wiper is 30 cm, while the distance from the right frame to the wiper is 70 cm.
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