FM synthesis can sound good if done/programmed right. Shaq Fu for the SNES has a superior soundtrack over the Genesis version for example.
That's a bad comparsion. A good composer of one system can make an equivalent console sound just as good.
That's true to an extent. The argument I'm grasping at this moment though is something more akin to "a good cellist and a good pianist can do the same thing!. A good cellist can play 10 notes simultaneously just as a good pianist can bend notes." No. The SNES and Genesis are different instruments. They both can sound great, but I'm not going to say both can do the same things equally well.
FM synthesis is awesome for long evolving warbling pads and atmospheric otherworldy sounds, as well as bell-like tones (and more), while sampling--even SNES quality sampling--can emulate instruments FM synthesis could never emulate well; guitars, for example, strings, or a pan flute. The "low quality" (I think low fidelity is more accurate) pan flute in the Kirby games sounds infinitely more convincing than anything FM could muster up.
My point is, they both have their strengths. Neither one is absolutely better than the other.
You're right. One can do things better than the other. Soft and more soothing ambient sounds can probably be done better with the SNES, while Rock/Metal, Techno, etc. stuff can be done better on Genesis. I disagree with you saying the Genesis couldn't emulate Guitars and strings better than the SNES though. Strings can probably vary but Guitars definately sound better on Genesis, no questions asked. The biggest strength of the Genesis is probably the raw power it has, especially with how damn good bass instruments and percussion sound.
FM synthesis is awesome for long evolving warbling pads and atmospheric otherworldy sounds, as well as bell-like tones (and more), while sampling--even SNES quality sampling--can emulate instruments FM synthesis could never emulate well; guitars, for example, strings, or a pan flute. The "low quality" (I think low fidelity is more accurate) pan flute in the Kirby games sounds infinitely more convincing than anything FM could muster up.
I agree, but I need to make just a small clarification:
You should compare Genesis vs SNES, and not "FM vs SNES".
Because I am sure that there can done pretty impressive almost real flutes and other instruments using 6 or 8 operators, by using Frequency Modulation on an advanced synth or software.
FM is a very deep algorithm, and FM vs SNES is an incompatible fight.
Raijin: I was referring more to timbre than intensity; for example compare the High Score Table theme from Arcade's Revenge for the SNES and the Genesis. In the SNES version, you can clearly recognize the separate instruments and what real-world counterpart they represent; crisp brass, nice distorted wah guitar riffs. Whereas the Genesis version, while more intense and harsher, sounds quite abstract in terms of instrumentation. I've never heard a convincing electric guitar using old-school FM synthesis. Maybe I've just never encountered it before, are there any standout examples of Genesis era FM guitars?
Delek: I agree, I was just being lazy. I guess I meant "old-school FM synthesis" with a small number of operators. Or just Sega Genesis.
Wow, I haven't heard that before fluidvolt. Those both imo sound really good, but I thought that Tim Follin only worked on 1 Genesis track in existance on a game never released?
Anyway, yeah Thunderforce IV pretty much defines good FM guitars, used in a few varieties throughout different tracks.
I'm not sure if Tim Follin actually did the Genesis port. I think he did but it's possible that someone else ported the song to it. The SNES guitars sound more like guitars in my opinion.
Good songs though, Raijin. Never been much of a Genesis guy, I'm more of a SNES buff but I'll have to check out some more Genesis tracks.
This reminds me, is there any reason why Genesis FM sounds so metallic? There's just something really cold about it when I hear it, whereas something like NES VRC7 sounds warmer to me. I realize these are subjective terms but someone must know what I mean. Or is this just me?
Tbh that Genesis port doesn't really sound like Follin's work, more like an imitation so to speak. Both sound good, but you're right, in comparison to the guitar, the SNES version is the winner.
My guess as to the Genesis sounding metalic is probably because of more operators combined in addition to other settings being offset with more feedback for a specific sound that leaves a sort of metalic sound behind. Just my guess though.
Edit: Speaking of Guitars and Follin, how could I forget. His only track for the Genesis has good guitars.
This reminds me, is there any reason why Genesis FM sounds so metallic? There's just something really cold about it when I hear it, whereas something like NES VRC7 sounds warmer to me. I realize these are subjective terms but someone must know what I mean. Or is this just me?
Go to FamiTracker's sound configuration page, and turn the treble damping down to 0 db, and that high frequency aliasing that is kind of an endemic problem with FM synthesis will ring out pretty clearly.
Filtering off the high frequencies is kind of important when doing FM synthesis. Possibly a lot of Genesis sound emulators don't do it, I dunno, but it wasn't even consistent across Genesis models so maybe it's a hard problem to solve accurately. Even if you had the output from the hardware correct, most TVs at the time would have filtered some high end out as well. A lot of YouTube videos of Genesis music sounds kind of crummy, I think, from too much high end.
Mostly it's a problem when high feedback is used. On a typical TV set at the time it might have sounded fine but right out of the chip it might have been really piercing.
Also, if you haven't heard it, listen to the Shinobi III soundtrack. It's wonderful.
Tbh that Genesis port doesn't really sound like Follin's work, more like an imitation so to speak. Both sound good, but you're right, in comparison to the guitar, the SNES version is the winner.
My guess as to the Genesis sounding metalic is probably because of more operators combined in addition to other settings being offset with more feedback for a specific sound that leaves a sort of metalic sound behind. Just my guess though.
Edit: Speaking of Guitars and Follin, how could I forget. His only track for the Genesis has good guitars.
Tbh that Genesis port doesn't really sound like Follin's work, more like an imitation so to speak. Both sound good, but you're right, in comparison to the guitar, the SNES version is the winner.
My guess as to the Genesis sounding metalic is probably because of more operators combined in addition to other settings being offset with more feedback for a specific sound that leaves a sort of metalic sound behind. Just my guess though.
Edit: Speaking of Guitars and Follin, how could I forget. His only track for the Genesis has good guitars. The rest of the samples sounded like they've been recorded at a higher pitch and played back at lower pitches. I'll take a look at the samples and provide them to you.
First of all, can you stop posting more than once? If you need to say something else, just edit your post.
Anyway, yeah Follin didn't make the Driver for that Genesis tune. That was by Dean Belfield. But cmon now. Those Follin songs with those unique guitars for the SNES shouldn't really be compared to anything other than a Follin song with unique instruments for the Genesis. His instruments outclass any other generic use of instruments. Compare those SNES guitars with Megaman X for example. Those Genesis guitars in Time Trax can't really be compared to anything else on the Genesis because they are literally one of a kind.
