Of course!, because you are comparing a 2A03 with a YM2612!. It is INSANE to code an ENVELOPE MANAGER of ALL THE REGISTERS of the YM2612. Please code your own tracker, because NOONE in the world will code that, it is complex, useless and only for a few extreme people trying to do 100% covers of a strange track of a game with a custom and super driver.
Ok look, I'm NOT asking you to add that feature. I might have contradicted myself, but I didn't intend to sound like I was asking you to add an effect like that. I meant I want you to realize that you can somewhat RECREATE the effect of that track from Verytex's attack rate changes. Again, DON'T take it to heart, just understand what I am trying to explain. There are alot of dead ends here, and it is mostly my own retardation, but, that doesn't make rapid attack changing completely pointless in the long run.
Delek wrote:
It is a very complex track using a powerful driver, it would be cool that you can understand this and then stop attacking me and DefleMask Tracker like you are doing.
I'm not trying to attack you here. I know I always come off cold, hateful and sound like I don't know shit about anything. It's just a "flaw" I have to deal with. Deflemask is fine and you are an awesome person. How did it even come off as "attacking you and Deflemask"? I'm not even mad or anything, just confused and frustrated. I already said this before, Deflemask is still new and therefor incomplete and in time, more things will be added to it to perfect its capabilities.
...Where was I going with this?
There are alot of dead ends here, and it is mostly my own retardation, but, that doesn't make rapid attack changing completely pointless in the long run.
That is not pointless, but then other musician can request a RAPID RS change to cover X game, then another musician can request a RAPID LFO change to cover Y game; and then we lost our minds. There are a FEW exotic games using complex drivers, so this is not a priority for anyone, for this reason the trackers for Genesis doesn't bother about this crazy stuffs.
Raijin wrote:
I'm not trying to attack you here. I know I always come off cold, hateful and sound like I don't know shit about anything. It's just a "flaw" I have to deal with. Deflemask is fine and you are an awesome person. How did it even come off as "attacking you and Deflemask"? I'm not even mad or anything, just confused and frustrated. I already said this before, Deflemask is still new and therefor incomplete and in time, more things will be added to it to perfect its capabilities.
...Where was I going with this?
You said that I am saying "cover another song" because "my tracker apparently can't replicate it perfectly", and that's not true, I am saying this because of your mind health; that Verytex track uses a very advanced way of handling the AR changes, you can try to make a cover in VGM MM or MVS tracker, but you will get stucked almost in the same dead end: A LOT OF INSTRUMENTS WITH DIFFERENTS ARs.
And DefleMask is new, ok, but VGM MM is not new and it cannot handle rapid AR changes neither. So this is not about being new or old, it is about what is useful to add and what is not.
In other words, I am trying to prevent your frustration dude, maybe I would eventually add AR control to DefleMask (effects 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D), but for the moment this is not a priority, because this will ONLY be useful for for those that need to cover a Verytex track. xD
If you want this SOOO BAAD, I would add 1A, 1B, 1C and 1D effects for tomorrow.
No! do not add anything just because I am bombarding you with my retardation. Only add something if you are comfortable with it or if you thing something would be a good idea. You have already said you don't think it is a good idea, so stay by that word.
By the way, I have been thinking. I hate to ask so randomly, but do you have Skype? I know you would be able to explain different things to me and obviously enough, I could learn alot from you. Hopefully I would stop asking such annoying things to people. If you do have Skype and are willing to share your username to add, I would be grateful.
No! do not add anything just because I am bombarding you with my retardation. Only add something if you are comfortable with it or if you thing something would be a good idea. You have already said you don't think it is a good idea, so stay by that word.
I think that is not very useful, but at the same time it is very easy to add (the DefleMask code is clear and transparent, adding an effect is easy). Maybe tomorrow after the work I would add those 4 effects and launch another update (sorry za909 xD).
Raijin wrote:
By the way, I have been thinking. I hate to ask so randomly, but do you have Skype? I know you would be able to explain different things to me and obviously enough, I could learn alot from you. Hopefully I would stop asking such annoying things to people. If you do have Skype and are willing to share your username to add, I would be grateful.
English is not my native language, I do not speak it very well and fast enough, and with a random accent.
I think that is not very useful, but at the same time it is very easy to add (the DefleMask code is clear and transparent, adding an effect is easy). Maybe tomorrow after the work I would add those 4 effects and launch another update (sorry za909 xD).
Idk, I really don't want you to if you initially didn't want it there. Regardless of it being easy or not to add. I know I bugged you and all, but really don't. Don't update it again until your next big release
Delek wrote:
English is not my native language, I do not speak it very well and fast enough, and with a random accent. [Sad]
Well, we don't need to use a Mic or anything. We could just type, it'd just be in realtime, not like commenting here all the time for dumb reasons. I don't really speak that well either, even though I am from America.
And if you are worried about typing slow or something, don't worry about that. Take all the time you need. But of course, if you don't like to have someone like me added, I understand!
Unfortunately I don't have Skype, you could add me on Facebook if you want only chat in realtime.
Btw, DefleMask 4.0 Update 5 arrived thanks to some Raijin requests:
NEWS:
01: Added 0x19 Global AR Control effect to Genesis.
02: Added 0x1A AR Operator 1 Control effect to Genesis.
03: Added 0x1B AR Operator 2 Control effect to Genesis.
04: Added 0x1C AR Operator 3 Control effect to Genesis.
05: Added 0x1D AR Operator 4 Control effect to Genesis.
06: Manual Updated.
Keep in mind that the envelope of the current instrument will not be reseted if the RR or DR is set to a very low value.
...Also, I don't have Facebook. I have been asked many times to get it but I don't really want to get an account there. I really, really need to think about getting an account...
What is the rapid AR changes you talking about? How they are used?
I mean, when you change AR/DR/SR/RR while channel is running (keyon state), it does not take any effect before keyoff and next keyon. So you need to use many notes in a row to on/off the channel, and depending on RR and delays in driver, level at the attack stage is not really known, as it does not reset on the keyon.
I mean, when you change AR/DR/SR/RR while channel is running (keyon state), it does not take any effect before keyoff and next keyon. So you need to use many notes in a row to on/off the channel, and depending on RR and delays in driver, level at the attack stage is not really known, as it does not reset on the keyon.
That's not absolutely true, and some sound drivers used rapid and strange AR register changes to produce complex tracks (I do not know how Verytex uses it and how Raijin need it, appears like that the channel 3 of the first track in Verytex have the same instrument with differents AR all the time).
If you have DefleMask on your PC, check out the DMF attached, it will send a NOTE ON with 3 AR changes before the NOTE OFF, then it will send a NOTE ON without any AR changes. The differences are clearly audible (tested on MAME's YM2612 Emulator, and on KEGA Fusion).
But it is right that the AR depends on much factors, for that reason I was saying that it would be useful in EXTREME covering cases only.
Was it tested on the HW? Because the info that these registers only take effect on the next 'key on' was tested on the HW, and it was actually used to reduce CPU load in a player (to spread register writes across the frames). That test and player wasn't done by me, though, but the guy who did it is extremly meticulous, I highly doubt he made any mistake. He also found some inaccuracies in the MAME YM2203 emulation back then (it was fixed since).
If you only test things with emulators, be prepared that they won't work as you expect on the HW. MAME emulation code (of anything) is actually far from being perfect.
Was it tested on the HW? Because the info that these registers only take effect on the next 'key on' was tested on the HW, and it was actually used to reduce CPU load in a player (to spread register writes across the frames). That test and player wasn't done by me, though, but the guy who did it is extremly meticulous, I highly doubt he made any mistake.
If you only test things with emulators, be prepared that they won't work as you expect on the HW. MAME emulation code (of anything) is actually far from being perfect.
So you are saying that:
1) Those "test on the real hardware" were made correctly.
2) KEGA Fusion have a problem with his YM2612 emulator (but, actually, it is THE BEST emulator of the YM2612).
3) in_vgm is sending NOTE ON commands in the middle of the AR changes, because it is changing.
4) KEGA Fusion is sending NOTE ON commands in the middle of the AR changes, because it is changing.
5) The VGM->BIN converter is working bad too because it is doing the SAME THING THAT KEGA FUSION, DEFLEMASK AND IN_VGM.
6) DefleMask, in_vgm, KEGA Fusion, MAME's Core and Genesis Plus GX rev. 368's YM2612 Emulator are all doing the same thing but they are all wrong.
Sorry, but I doubt that all of those points are right, and it is stupid to suppose ALL OF THAT SHIT only for NOT ACCEPT that the AR is ACTUALLY CHANGING between NOTE ONs ONLY because a "test" was made by a guy but we didn't know HOW WAS IT MADE. It is hilarous.
Another thing, the source code of in_vgm is available, and it DOES NOT SEND a note ON to the emulator when the AR changes.
And guess what?, the emulator inside in_vgm NEITHER sends a NOTE ON command when a new AR is detected.
So your affirmation and those "tests" appears to be erroneous.
I will test it on the actual hardware with an EverDrive for you, but how about you?:
YOU tested PERSONALLY that the AR changes are only detected between NOTE ONs?, or you are maybe repeating an incorrect test that other dude did?, where is the source of that test?, how that test was made?, do you have a link to it?, why you are asking me if this works on the real hardware while you did not tested it by yourself?.
A friend of mine with an EverDrive will make the test in some days. If the AR change, then the tests that you are talking about were WRONG, if the AR not change, then, ALL EMULATORS, included KEGA Fusion, and softwares like DefleMask, in_vgm and the ROM BUILDER are ALL WRONG. The probability is on my side.
PS: Someone with an EverDrive could please test the attached bin file?, if you found a difference between the first note and the second one, then the AR is changing. I attached also the output from the emulator.
You don't need to say sorry for an update, I mean moar effect colums on their own are worth one. :D
But I told you that it was the last "update" and then Raijin requested those AR effects and I contradicted myself. :P
But well, if you keep in mind that I am making this to improve DefleMask, everything is fine.
