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Posted: 2011-04-28 06:29  (Last Edited: 2011-04-28 06:30) Reply | Quote
Delek

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#16468
gyms wrote:
what kind of equipment/software are they using to get that sound?
Roland TB-303 plus a filter.

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Posted: 2011-04-28 06:57  (Last Edited: 2012-10-25 07:30) Reply | Quote
gyms



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#16469


Posted: 2011-04-28 08:53  (Last Edited: 2012-10-25 07:31) Reply | Quote
gyms



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#16470


Posted: 2011-04-28 12:56 Reply | Quote
igloo



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#16471
More. Acid.

[edit:URLs] Posted: 2011-04-28 18:49  (Last Edited: 2011-04-28 18:50) Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#16479
Delek wrote:
gyms wrote:
what kind of equipment/software are they using to get that sound?
Roland TB-303 plus a filter.

The way they skillfully modulate the timbre can definitely be called "acid" but I doubt it's a 303.

A hard lesson for me to understand is that
1) Not all uses of the 303 are acid
2) Not all acid is made by a 303.

Two examples of non-303 acid (warning, the second one will melt your face off)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGYUM9pvMOE&t=328
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHg9D2V0dA8&t=230
But as far as the IM example goes, I think it really can be achieved through Frequency Modulation, as I've tried to show via FDS. I could probably simulte some Filter Cutoff by altering the wavetable to be smoother and more sine-ey.

Posted: 2011-04-28 22:13 Reply | Quote
Delek

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#16487
303 acid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmKk8uFBKQU

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RE: [edit:URLs] Posted: 2011-04-28 22:32  (Last Edited: 2012-10-25 07:31) Reply | Quote
gyms



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#16488


Posted: 2011-04-28 23:11  (Last Edited: 2011-04-28 23:13) Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#16491
Holy frick, so...this hint I'm getting of using FM to create acid...is totally achievable on the xoxbox alone?

Gotta look into that for future hardware.
But the thing that is really "acidic" is if you modulate the modulation freq and depth like I did with the FDS instruments. I think I only hear you messing with cuttoff and resonance. Can you live twiddle knobs for the FM processing itself?

Posted: 2011-04-28 23:38  (Last Edited: 2012-10-25 07:31) Reply | Quote
gyms



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#16492


Posted: 2011-04-29 00:57 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#16499
Not that I know of, but on a similar note, you can create your own hardware to do this; a band-pass filter, a phase-locked loop & a low slew-rate op-amp audio amplifier is all you need to really mess around with waveforms.

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Posted: 2011-04-29 18:27 Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#16519
Or...FDS...

Posted: 2011-07-07 07:19  (Last Edited: 2011-07-07 08:31) Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#19537
So... I've just learned that the FDS's modulation table can run up to around 1700Hz or so (all the pitches that the main wavetable can play at). This thing was totally capable of FM synthesis, though we can't really do it in FamiTracker without one instrument per pitch used (the pitch table value should be your modulation rate). Also there's no effect/macro for modulation depth so you'd be stuck with a static wave and might as well just use the wavetable for that directly.

If there were an option to lock that modulation rate to the wavetable's frequency (or integer multiples), and to envelope the modulation depth, we could reasonably do FM synthesis with the FDS.

Though... did any games do this?

Edit: this thing was not totally capable of FM synthesis, see below.

Posted: 2011-07-07 08:01  (Last Edited: 2011-07-07 08:17) Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#19538
Yeah, I think an effect for FDS parameters (also VRC7) was in the request list. This is why I've halted that project.

Also, from the tiny tidbits of info, it seems that the N106 might be able to do similar stuff. So I'm waiting for that too.

Here I found a list of games using the N106, so I'm going through the namco nsf's right now to check.

I think there's an FDS list on the famitracker wiki.

[edit:]
rainwarrior wrote:

...and to envelope the modulation depth...

You mean like the mod depth waveform? Or something akin to an Axx decay?

[edit2:did more research]
Bwahahaha, list of FDS Have fun with that.

Posted: 2011-07-07 08:18  (Last Edited: 2011-07-07 08:37) Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#19539
Ha ha, after experimenting with it I'm beginning to realize why I can't find any games doing this. There are two big factors against it:

1. Changing the modulation depth creates a big pop, which more or less kills any desire to envelope it.

2. The resolution of the frequencies available doesn't really allow the carrier/modulator oscillators to stay properly synchronized, the carrier will shift phase a little every cycle creating horrible phasing problems (I think this is also why a lot of FM synthesizers implement as phase modulation rather than true frequency modulation).

So... never mind. It actually seems pretty much useless for FM. Though, I'm sure everyone in Japan already knew this 25 years ago.

*sigh*


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Posted: 2011-07-07 08:26 Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#19540
Yeah, after doing this experiment, I don't think FDS specific effects or the ability to match pitch with mod rate would be worthwhile anyway.

I have listened to a bunch of FDS games on that list. The best sounding one so far was the FDS version of Gyruss.

The only one I've seen firsthand using the modulator at frequencies above an LFO level was Nazo no Murasamejou, but it was doing it on a really weird waveform anyway, it kind of seemed accidental, didn't even affect the sound much the way it was done.

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