In all seriousness. That is an example of something negative someone says about you that you should ignore. It means nothing, right?
Besides, that first post of mine was just a troll post. I am a jokester, and I lighten the mood.
I wasn't taking everything serious, like I said, I decided to take a standpoint and defend it against all-comers. Maybe I took it too far... seemed towards the end there everyone was just flinging insults at me and perhaps that's my fault. I don't take what someone I've never met who types insults in text seriously. On the other hand, I don't want everyone here to think I'm an a$$hole (btw I've never really spent any time in any forum before, so this is all new to me), because actually I like this place... and want to learn more about famitracker and chip music. So, I'll say it again if anyone didn't read it the first time - sorry if I went too far with it, it wasn't my intention... I was just having a good time and got carried away.
natty, here's what went wrong. You've come onto the forum and almost immediately start grouping everyone who's proficient with the program as snobs who are just trying to bust a nut all over everyone with their silly technical knowledge.
"I'm in it for the music!" implies that everyone else is not; that anyone who can use the program well are just overly technical dullards who don't have a clue what music is or something. Well, a lot of people here would fit into your pocket there, since many are proficient and have spent a lot of time studying junk to get certain sounds they want for their music. It's also a window into appreciating NES tunes on a deeper level; it's fun.
I think people have been reacting to your attitude more than your argument, which was a bit vague in the first place. Who here has claimed you were cheating? Who here has shit talked your music for being fakebit? A lot of your comments seem to be fired out at everyone in general.
No one likes being labeled as lifeless dullards who appreciate only technical bullshit and have no real connection with music. It's a gross misunderstanding on your part if you truly believe this.
I'm taking interest enough to write all this cos this is all obviously a very new world for you and I sort of remember that feeling myself, back when it was all new to me. I even accidentally made an ass of myself a few times under several other different handles(not on these forums btw)discussing these same kinds of things actually, with the same kind of attitude.
Just try to think twice before you say something and get rid of this idea that you're above it all just because you focus on a genre that equates with exploring music through intuition and self. I still maintain that chip Reggae is silly, tho I've made some myself before. You really can't explore music through your own body and physiology without that physical interaction with a real, physical instrument. Tracking is a very cerebral and calculating activity, it's nearly the exact opposite of exercising intuition. So get rid of this idea that people who study this and that are really just fooling themselves, etc. cos you will definitely learn a lot of you just chill for a second and observe what's going on here without needlessly taking a defensive stance on everything. No one's attacking or judging you, just chill homie.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to reply Gyms, it's truly appreciated.
I see that perhaps I have given the wrong impression, because what you feel I said, and what I feel I said are two different things. I thought I'd made myself clear, but clearly I failed in that respect.
I have the utmost respect for anyone who puts great effort into making chip music, or any other type of music for that matter, and I am completely in awe of anyone who is proficient in such a mind-boggling skill as using a tracker and manipulating chip sounds in a subtle fashion. I at no point intended to suggest that such people weren't "in it for the music", because of course they are. I'd love to know all the "technical bullshit" myself.
My comments were aimed solely at those who took a superior view over others' music - maybe these people's music is actually superior, but I just don't think that's the way to act. Personally, I don't care a jot if you call my music fakebit, I'd happily label it that myself. If I gave the impression that any of this discussion was about me, then again I'm sorry. I just became very interested in the ethics and philosophy behind it, and I guess I went on a bit of a crusade in foreign lands... oops.
No one here has called my music fakebit! I began this thread because I read through quite a few threads looking for some answers on how to improve my music, and encountered an underlying attitude in a few of them that I found counter-productive. I also asked a question about the expansion chips, and was given a brusque answer because "Famitracker's not supposed to have the expansion chips". At the time I'd had famitracker a couple of days, came to the famitracker forum, where I downloaded the expansion chips... again, I am aware that this is not everyone's attitude, and that for the most part people here have a good attitude towards music. My comments weren't meant for everyone.
As for the chip reggae, well that's your opinion. You were the first person to comment positively when I posted my first attempt at famitracker, then in this thread, and quite off-topic, you harshly lambasted my work. No matter, you travel far enough you're going to meet every opinion under the sun. All I can say is that my first famitracker effort is currently number 1 in the reggaedubwise charts, which is no great beans, but shows that not everyone thinks the same about chip reggae, least of all the reggae community. It's perhaps a subject that you don't know so much about, because dub and reggae were among the first genres to incorporate electronic music into their sound, and Wayne Smith's fully computerised "Under Me Sleng Teng" in 1985 was a game changer, creating a wave of computerised reggae that continues to this day, which also gave rise to jungle->ragga->dancehall->drum and bass->dubstep->hence influencing pretty much any modern dance/electronic music you can think of. Reggae has incorporated lo-fi electronic sounds from an early age, including laser-samples, and the dub siren. Chip reggae is a fun, kitschy off-shoot of this. It's a well-known genre, with many great artists. Perhaps it's not for you and you don't get it, that's no problem, but there are plenty of people out there who don't think so.
Check it out if you've got some time. Maybe you think my work is silly, but there are some artists whose work you might appreciate if you give them chance.
Yea, this computerized Reggae movement is something I wasn't aware of. When I think Reggae/Dub, I think the warm, soulful embraces of Marley or Lee Perry and the sort. So maybe you can see why I'd think it silly. I still say there's no contest between the roots and its computer based counterpart (tho 1985, that has a bit of say doesn't it?). But the fact that the fully synthesized stuff still had vocals(at least "..Sleng Teng" gives it a more warm and human presence than the idea of pure chip reggae/dub. It almost seems like "chip" is just being tacked on for the sake of being novel and not much else.
But honestly, you can probably make it work quite well with famitracker. The amount of control you have in FT over manipulating chip samples in a DAW will definitely get you closer to what you're going for I think. The technical stuff is a pain to learn and get used to, but it's what truly adds life to things in the end.
Thanks for your help, I read your post on the other thread, and already that's a help!
Well, to be honest, when I started making music I wasn't interested in anything synthesized, I was into pure organic. The thing is I come from a small town and also have moved around quite a lot, and so in making music I haven't had much opportunity to jam with other people. Hence I started "cheating" (teehee) drum loops, organs, basslines at times... always trying to stay true to the organic feel. I even started playing my guitar out of tune in an attempt to compensate for the inorganic sounds in my music!
Well, I wasn't happy with the results. Then I moved and left my instruments in storage, and thought "Hell, why pretend that you're not making electronic music?" I did a couple of tunes with moogish vsts, incorporating a c64 vst or two - I was really into a couple of 8 bit artists, but had no real idea of the different production techniques involved. So four months ago I made my first fakebit dub tune using c64 vst, and since then I've been hooked on the idea. I've downloaded C64 emulators and original music programs to augment my work, started reading and trying to fathom the different production techniques involved in making 8 bit music, then I stumbled upon famitracker. So you see, I'm quite new to this!
I don't think that 8 bit/chip reggae is as gimmicky as you think. First of all, the simple, lo-fi, tonal waves are great for producing the type of basslines that go with reggae. Beyond that, the arcade-style sounds compliment the often-times happy-go-lucky, simple, childlike melodies of reggae. Reggae, and dub in particular is a genre that has it's tradition steeped in experimentation, in bringing in new sounds and adding them to the canon. Well, you mentioned Lee Perry, and if you read up on him you will see that he is one of the original pioneers of electronic music. Check his musical output beyond the 70s and you will be amazed at the different genres he's dabbled in (not all of his stuff is good actually, but the man is crazy!) Also, listen to Marley's "Sun is Shining" for example, that's partially computerised (find the original melodica version, because he re-recorded it with a blues guitarist).
Of course chip reggae is never going to be the same as the original stuff, but then I'm a bedroom producer not a session musician, and this is my little thing
I think it's important to recognize what people in this community are trying to do. The first time I was ever even exposed to "chipmusic" was when a friend of mine put on an Anamanaguchi CD. I've played video games all my life, and I had never even dreamed of the concept of taking a video game console, and making original music within the limitations of that systems sound chip. The idea blew me away, and I wanted to learn more immediately.
When I first started out the first thing I did was get a VST plug-in for FL studio called "magical8bitplug", and literally just went to town with it. By the time I was done with my first song I think I had something close to 30 channels, with all types of other weird club drum samples, and pianos, and just about any other random instrument I could find. When I listened to the song, I was hearing cool nintendo sounding noises, but it didn't gimme the same warm and fuzzy feeling I got when I used to play through the original Mega Man games on my NES.
After a little bit of research, I finally stumbled across famitracker. The first thing I did was create an instrument, mash the keyboard, and hit play. Just hearing notes and sounds that were "authentic", instantly put a shit eating grin on my face.
Ever since then i've been constantly trying to expand my knowledge of famitracker. Mex, Gyms, Rainwarrior, and Danooct, always post incredibly helpful and informative stuff on these forums, very regularly. They're quick to critique your work, and give helpful, positive, constructive criticism.
I can see why someone calling your work "fakebit" would be offensive. Like someone said earlier, good music is good music, whatever genre, style, genus, or phylum you wanna label it as. The point of creating music with famitracker (to me) is mostly about excelling, within VERY STRICT limitations. More then anything I feel an air of nostalgia when i'm trying to work on songs...certainly not snobiness, or arrogance as to who's creating what type of music.
I still haven't had the balls to post any completed songs yet, solely because I want my work to be WORTHY of this community, before I post a pile of dog shit that people have to sit through. If you prefer to make music with plug-ins, or any other type of musical software (i'm sorry but i just can't condone GSXCC) then that's your prerogative. I just don't think it's fair to bash people who are trying to do something pretty unique and creative. I'm sure if you asked for their help you would get it.
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"Mayhaps a hidden door lurks nigh? Let us search the environs." -Frog
