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Posted: 2011-09-19 05:02 Reply | Quote
Xyz_39808

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#23192
Velathnos wrote:
What you have here is I V/vi VI/vi (B major being the dominant of E).

Right. What'd I say haha
+1 Theory Analysis points to Velathnos

Honestly, we'd have to see the rest of the song to know its proper context.

Posted: 2011-09-19 05:43 Reply | Quote
ElHuesudoII

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#23194
I've expanded cak's example with pretty much every chord listed on Wikipedia, including inversions for some of them, but not yet including the "chords with a name".

And I don't think making a chord book for practice is a silly idea! I mean, some of us weren't actually taught music, you know.


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chordbook.ftm (17 Kb)
Posted: 2011-09-19 06:33 Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#23196
Why is there a C on the bottom of the Neapolitan 6th?

Posted: 2011-09-19 07:38 Reply | Quote
cak

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#23199
Actually the Neapolitan is just a major triad played in minor 2nd position, so it's more or less redundant.

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Posted: 2011-09-19 15:52 Reply | Quote
ElHuesudoII

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#23205
As I said, I'm slightly illiterate in terms of music theory. I only put all the chords I could find out there in the file, and didn't bother to check what were they about. LOL

Posted: 2011-09-19 15:56 Reply | Quote
Velathnos

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#23206
Well, for those interested, the neapolitan sixth is a major chord played on the flattened second degree of a scale (In C major : Db major). It's called the neapolitan sixth because it is normally encountered in its first inversion (again in C major: F Ab Db). But it's not an absolte rule. (To be clear, a chord in first inversion is called a sixth chord because of the interval formed between the bass note (F in our example) and the top note (Db)).

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:01 Reply | Quote
gyms



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#23207
analyze this: G - Bb - C

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:06 Reply | Quote
Velathnos

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#23208
Lol, now it's a music theory challenge thread...ok I'd say a C7 (or minor seventh), second inversion with the third missing. Or another chord with an appogiatura or a passing tone (which can't be found without context).

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:08 Reply | Quote
gyms



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#23209
oops sorry, it was a progression: G major > Bb major > C major

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:15 Reply | Quote
Velathnos

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#23210
Ohh...Then it's most probably a modulating sequence like The G major > B major > E major thing. Or we could try to explain it as II of V > IV > V in F major. But that would be trying to find an explanation at all cost. (As would be I > IV of vii > V of vii). If there's another I'd be interested to know it.

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:26  (Last Edited: 2011-09-19 16:28) Reply | Quote
gyms



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#23212
haha, yea it is a little strange to analyze, right? My friend wrote a song using that progression on guitar and then transferred it to piano. When I played it, I'm like, "wtf, this doesn't belong to any key or mode." It's super simple but at the same time, a tad more complex than any diatonic progression.

My analysis is that, yea, it's modulating, but what makes it sound interesting is that the roots progress along either the 3rd or 5th mode of the major pentatonic scale. And each modulation is to another major key, so has a sense of rolling happily along. Also, C rolls back to G nicely because it's like a IV - I cadence.

A similar thing with the smoke-on-the-water riff, cept if you use my theory on that one, the roots move along a blues scale. The fifths/power chords also give a less defined 'chord' and the sound is more open and ambiguous.

It occurred to me lately that guitar has to be the best instrument to easily write progressions that aren't bound diatonically, all you gotta do is basically move chord shapes around. Probably why rock sounds so interesting and distinct.

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:32 Reply | Quote
Velathnos

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#23214
Yeah I agree, like all those song written in power chords is hard to analyze sometimes while in fact it's just a melody doubled at the fifth. Sometimes it's best to just follow along what's good. Which leads me to say : Theory won't help you compose (that much); it will help you to understand what you do and what others do. The important thing is hearing the music. A little technique and knowledge of chord have never hurted anyone of course.

N.B. I speak in my own experience. It might be different for someone else. I've always been the first to encourage my friends to learn music theory.

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:37 Reply | Quote
gyms



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#23216
Velathnos wrote:
The important thing is hearing the music. A little technique and knowledge of chord have never hurted anyone of course.


amen, brother

Posted: 2011-09-19 16:49 Reply | Quote
cak

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#23219
gyms wrote:
Probably why rock sounds so interesting and distinct.

It's also a reason why rock guitarists tend not to think about advanced harmonic theory stuff, because simply moving the chord around sounds good intuitively. Why bother to explain what the subjective experience of listening has already made clear? That said, I've created interesting progressions based on knowing what the rules are so as to break them. For instance, C C#m C Eb C Ebm.

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Posted: 2011-09-19 17:04 Reply | Quote
gyms



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#23221
cak wrote:
Why bother to explain what the subjective experience of listening has already made clear?


I'd say so pianists/key guys and arrangers can put together more interesting songs. Extending chords, using altered bass and hearing multiple parts at once is more natural and intuitive on piano. A song composed on a guitar could be embellished and made more prepared to play on other arrangements when trying to understand the composition. And the same would apply the other way around, a piano progression could be easily folk-ified when brought over to guitar.

The physical interaction with either instrument dictates strongly how you approach and think about creating music. I'd say there are no other instruments more powerful as composition tools than piano and guitar.

Form vs intuition, using both of these instruments during the composition process would be an interesting technique to rely on.

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