I didn't really like the final boss song ... didn't really sound "final bossy" to me so much. The final final boss final clip sounded a lot more like a boss fight, which is good, but it sounded like it had some clashing notes (not in a good "tension" way, but in a "these notes do not go together ever" way).
Furthermore, it doesn't make much sense that you're charging 9.99 for album, @ 0.99 per song, for a game that is free for download.
I don't know if that's because I'm in Canada, but I have to pay 1,99$ for the game.
Anyway, anyone and everyone is welcome to post about their project on our forums (provided it has something to do with NES music in general, preferably FamiTracker music), but you, you come here, tell us about your project that we can't listen to or play without paying (see rule #3), then somebody nice enough to bother offering proper criticism does so and you can't take it without getting mad and writing a novel in defence?
Don't be surprised so few people manifested interest in this. I'd say this thread is rather useless as far as a Famitracker-driven community is concerned. My advice is 1) post an FTM or an NSF, and 2) revise your attitude towards criticism, or this thread will get locked.
That; & continue increasing your skills in physics & music, Perspection. Even if your music isn't freely available & even if it doesn't sound as good to others as it does to you, it still shows some potential. But remember this; for whatever amount of research you've put forth into using FamiTracker, I guarantee that it will never be enough; I'm speaking from my own experience (& lack of multiple skills with FamiTracker). Thus the reason gyms made that guitar analogy.
As for the project; we criticize the work you've done because there are things to be improved. The fact that you advertised your product here makes us your intended customers, so we ask "Why should we download & play your game out of all others in the App Store?" Therefore, you should accept your customers' input & use it to improve your product; doing so will improve your chances of success. Otherwise, expect your success to be minimal.
Or, you can just post an FTM or NSF to let us show you points of improvement.
_______________________
Technology: the one thing that's hated & cursed at by all engineers, technologists, scientists & technicians!
Seriously, if you want some real constructive criticism, post an FTM. This enables us to be very specific with suggestions, and even show you directly what they sound like.
Otherwise what you'll get unspecific comments. I don't recommend arguing with these; they're so vague it's taking you pages to try to define what they mean. If you want real criticism then lay out the source for us.
Without FTMs, I can't say much more than this: I listened to what I could of it for free, and I didn't like it much. Is that helpful? Probably not. It's my honest opinion, but I doubt you found it interesting to read.
Also, watch your square's vibrato on A-3, it'll click if it's wider than 4x2 (I hear this prominently in http://youtu.be/J4UoKf-WrwA).
Hey jlrepage,
I am sorry for the bad vibes, as I've said in other posts so far, but I do have to equivocate with you about something: I never said anybody had to buy it. I gave a link Facebook and the web site where they could listen to samples for free, along with the iTunes links for the game and the soundtrack if they were interested by the previews and stuff. Like I said, I was reluctant to provide .ftm's, because I'm new here and I wasn't sure how safe copyrights were and everything. I admit that's a little paranoid, but that "don't mean they're not after you," as the late Kurt Cobain put it.
So, yeah, the way I saw it was, hey, here's my new project, check it out, buy it if you want to. I'm sorry if there's any harm in that.
Also, as far as criticism goes. Try and think of it this way. Maybe some people on here are shooting stuff down with blanket and out-of-pocket responses of "not enough use of effects" constantly. I felt the need to defend myself, because I really spent a lot of time on these effects. I was just thinking, "credit where credit is due." Also, it was a way of asking him to be a little more specific. On top of that, it was my first post, so I'm going to have to learn to get a thicker skin, I know. However, don't I have the right to fight back a little bit, at least on my first time out? I mean, because I spoke out to this guy (probably too harshly, because he was somewhat complimentary), I managed to drum up some support and more opinions on my music. I showed my true passion for the art form. A lot of these comments are telling me in so many words, basically, you know, it's just 8-bit music, share it and bear it. I mean, I'm passionate about what I do. I dunno if that makes my music seem worse, but I love what I do. Call me crazy, sure.
Trust me, I can take criticism, just not when I perceive it to be careless. Maybe I was wrong, but that's how I felt. I've seen people react a lot more harshly (and a lot less articulately) than I did. But I do want to be on this forum, and I do want feedback. Encouragement is definitely more welcome, but I know I can't expect that all the time. Please accept my apology, but also try to understand where I was coming from. Also, thanks for defending my right to post stuff that's NES-related.
Remember, though, I did offer something that's free to listen to with an option to buy. Also, I honestly want to give it away through 8bitpeoples, but they haven't responded to my e-mails asking them to give it a listen. Here's hoping.
Are you really the guy who does Rushjet? Like, for real? I am a huge fan. I love the Sounds of the 2A03 album. That is some of the best stuff on 8bitpeoples. It was a huge inspiration for me to do this kind of music, seriously.
Most of my songs for this game I would just dream of and then get down on Fami as a start. I'd either finish them that day or save them for later until I dreamed another idea to add to it. Sometimes crazy stuff would happen like I would rap over them, which happens later in that track if you listen. Then I would bring them to the developer with another song maybe and ask him (Dave from Beauty of the Fall) if it worked for something in particular that I suggested or just what he would like to use it on. He pretty much picked from what I had and put them where they belonged. So I take no responsibility in not making stuff to fit.
I have to disagree with you on the statement "these notes do not go together ever." I am surprised that an accomplished musician such as you could think like that. Any and all notes are meant to go together at all times and any time. If I believed that all notes and effects had to be used at the right place at the right time at certain parts in a game, then I would have to give up on having anything to offer to a genre of music or music in general. I like to experiment. It's a good thing. I get really bored when music stays safe and in the same place. However, there is a place for Bach-esque perfectly constructed chord changes, harmonies, etc. All of that I take into consideration when composing, so thanks for reminding me of that portion. Final Final Boss Final was the actual last boss music, and I composed it in 3 hours with that in mind, so it probably reflects a mindset of final boss.
Oh yeah, for the original final boss music, I really did try to make it bossy at first with the scary build up thing at the beginning, then with the rap breakdown and everything, I was thinking hmm, this is more of a precelebration that the game is almost over, so let's throw something fun. The Secret of Mana final Thanatos and Mana Beast fight came to mind. Thanatos fight is scary and all, but it also kind of has that flippant hip-hopness and sampling to it that's kind of cool. I was definitely going for that. Mana Beast is this happy song that's very exciting, but it's almost a celebration. If you can look at that song from that standpoint, then you might enjoy it better.
Thanks Rushjet (hoping you are the true Rushjet). You are my hero. I hope you'll reply to this.
Thanks for your sound advice. You're right, it is getting ridiculous trying to deal with the vague comments by being very specific in trying to figure out what people mean. Most people I've shown this to in person have enjoyed how it sounded and the complexity of it, so I'm a bit flabbergasted by how specific these responses are. Your comment about clicking in the vibrato was the first one that actually made sense to me. I definitely hear it in the track that you specified. I can put that one up and you can maybe show me how to fix that. A lot of what other people had to say was just that they generally thought the use of volume, duty, and portamento was not adequate in some way. I admit that I'm not as experienced in that as some people, but I guess I just think that it should sound cool as is. Most people I showed in person seemed to dig it how things slid around. I tried to make some slides sound more obvious or kind of sloppy. I was just having some fun a lot of the time. That's why I guess I don't have a problem defending from criticism, because I think that new people like myself can offer some of the people who think they know everything a different perspective, or perception---or perspection
But as to your comment about not liking it much, is there any particular reason? Was there no redeeming quality to it at all? Most of the time I'm just trying to make people feel energized or excited or intellectually stimulated, musically. Sometimes it's just to make people dance. Doesn't do anything for ya as far as that goes?
Thanks,
Rob
I'm attaching the .ftm where the clicking happens. Would love to know how to fix that.
The click happens when the square channel passes over certain pitch boundaries. Most often it is noticed when using a vibrato that is too wide on a note that is close to a boundary, like A-3. (I don't remember where the other boundaries are offhand, sorry. A-3 comes up a lot for me though.)
Here's a narrower pitch macro that won't click on A-3:
| 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0
My advice is to not use the macros for vibrato, and instead use the 4xx effect. That way you can just use 4x2 for A-3, and a different value for your other notes, and maybe it won't be so noticeable that only A-3 had the narrower vibrato.
MrFTBN,
You're right, I was not chill after my first comment on the forums. I haven't done forums much in the past 10 years or so, so it's like rediscovering your childhood. In any case, I probably was overthinking it, which I should concede to gyms, but I really can't help but notice a lack of positivity. This thing is my baby, and I'm very protective of it, if that makes any sense. Thanks for your kind words, though. Very helpful.
As for the comment about not liking it much, it was true, but I only said it to demonstrate why it's not a useful comment. So... normally I wouldn't have said it, and you wouldn't have the opportunity to ask why.
So, sorry, I don't really want to get into an answer to that question right now. Probably the best way to answer would be to remix your tune and show you, but I can't take time to do this right now, maybe later.
TechEmporium,
Though my game is not free (not sure how people got that idea), your description of iTunes app policies was very helpful. Yeah, this was a move to hopefully get some positive feedback and some presence on the Internet. I did not expect people to jump on it so harshly.
As far as the negative feedback goes, try and think of it from my point of view. I poured my heart and soul into this thing. I suppose I could have put up .ftm's all the while I was developing the soundtrack, and then I could get feedback for each one and improve them accordingly as I went, but I didn't do that. I just made them sound how I wanted until they were all done and the game was out. Then on top of it, I had it mastered! It's like showing someone a car that you built by hand frame up, then installed the steering wheel, the doors, had it painted, waxed and finished, and then someone tells you the engine doesn't sound right. It's done and the story's been told. I guess that was just too much for me to handle all at once. Hours upon hours have been simplified and categorized by a few comments. At least some good ones would have helped, that's all.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and feedback, and thanks for sticking up for me.
I was curious, though, was this a soundtrack you liked enough to buy? You can also get it cheaper on Amazon ($7.99) or on emusic for $5.99 if you're a member. If it ever goes up on 8bitpeopes, you can always download the whole mastered version for free.
Thanks,
Rob
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Hey gyms,
I don't know how to do simple echo, I admit. How do I do that? Is that an effect?
Sorry for the bad vibes, again. I didn't mean to insult you, I just was hoping for a clear positive compliment from you. Flattery will get you everywhere. But I know, you have a right not to give that.
TechEmporium,
Though my game is not free (not sure how people got that idea), your description of iTunes app policies was very helpful. Yeah, this was a move to hopefully get some positive feedback and some presence on the Internet. I did not expect people to jump on it so harshly.
As far as the negative feedback goes, try and think of it from my point of view. I poured my heart and soul into this thing. I suppose I could have put up .ftm's all the while I was developing the soundtrack, and then I could get feedback for each one and improve them accordingly as I went, but I didn't do that. I just made them sound how I wanted until they were all done and the game was out. Then on top of it, I had it mastered! It's like showing someone a car that you built by hand frame up, then installed the steering wheel, the doors, had it painted, waxed and finished, and then someone tells you the engine doesn't sound right. It's done and the story's been told. I guess that was just too much for me to handle all at once. Hours upon hours have been simplified and categorized by a few comments. At least some good ones would have helped, that's all.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and feedback, and thanks for sticking up for me.
I was curious, though, was this a soundtrack you liked enough to buy? You can also get it cheaper on Amazon ($7.99) or on emusic for $5.99 if you're a member. If it ever goes up on 8bitpeopes, you can always download the whole mastered version for free.
Thanks,
Rob
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Hey gyms,
I don't know how to do simple echo, I admit. How do I do that? Is that an effect?
Sorry for the bad vibes, again. I didn't mean to insult you, I just was hoping for a clear positive compliment from you. Flattery will get you everywhere. But I know, you have a right not to give that.
-Rob
EDIT: Oh duh, you sent an ftm. Thanks!
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TechEmporium,
A couple of extra comments.
I did appreciate your compliment about the rhythm, melody, and harmony of it all. I put a LOT of work into it, believe me, and a lot of this came from an inspired place. I was (and am) very proud of it. It was a heck of a lot of fun.
As an answer to your comment about things sounding out of place, you'd have to see them in the context of the game to see how they work. They aren't all for the main Missile Command-esque levels of gameplay. Some are very specifically for cutscenes, as you can see in the titles.
The regular boss music is supposed to get you nervous, but also give you a little bit of a groove. Here it is below. Notice the crazy slides and lost beats in the measures. I was very happy with those, and I hope you dig them. It's pretty cool, because parts of the faces of the bosses slide side to side when you tilt the iPhone, and it sometimes looks like their dancing, especially the second boss, which looks like an octopus. Wish I had youtubes for every part in the game. Maybe I should think about making some to show you guys how everything fits.
Which song of mine sounded like an amateur software cracker's keygen intro? It was probably the cutscene one that is played on the preview., right That was the last song I finished (sadly also had the vibrato A-3 pop that I wasn't aware of---thought it was just a glitch in the video file), and if you listen through the whole thing, it gets less cheesy (the beginning is intentionally so) and becomes supercool, I'm telling you; give it a chance.
Things to keep in mind for bossmusic:
It's meant to sound more old school, so less worry about the duty, also, I know that it should be in 6/8 tempo, but I made it "fake swing" in a regular 4/4 tempo to make it sound more robotic and nervous. Think "danger Will Robinson" robot dancing, or "We are the Robots" by Kraftwerk. I think it ended up being a very cool effect.
) 
If I believed that all notes and effects had to be used at the right place at the right time at certain parts in a game, then I would have to give up on having anything to offer to a genre of music or music in general. I like to experiment. It's a good thing. I get really bored when music stays safe and in the same place. However, there is a place for Bach-esque perfectly constructed chord changes, harmonies, etc. All of that I take into consideration when composing, so thanks for reminding me of that portion. Final Final Boss Final was the actual last boss music, and I composed it in 3 hours with that in mind, so it probably reflects a mindset of final boss.